This is a lightweight and strong folding camp tool, which essentially contains two parts, a durable DAC aluminum single-pole construction, and a breathable mesh. Get our Handbook - the resource you need to make intelligent decisions about gear, safety, comfort, and pack weight. The chairs feet form a rectangle. The Best Scotch of 2020 Subverted Expectations, The 10 Coolest Pieces of Beatles Gear We Spotted in the “Get Back” Teaser, All Sorts of Multitools Are Up to 35% Off at Huckberry, We Finally Found a Set of Kettlebells and They’re 20% Off, Uncharted Supply and Yeti Teamed Up on the Ultimate Survival Kit, How to Bet Week 16's Best NFL Games, According to the Pros, Trailer: “Rudolf,” Allegedly a Real Movie, Will Reimagine Christmas as a Gritty, Live-Action Tale, The 100 Best Songs (And 20 Best Albums) of 2020. Reviews, deals and product news for people who like owning nice things. Reactions: shooterrdy. Membership Sales & Support: 406-640-HIKE (406-640-4453) |, Lightweight Backpacking Chairs: REI Flexlite Air Chair vs. Helinox Chair Zero, Our Lightweight Gear Recommendations for REI Members, Backpacking Courses, Webinars & Other Events. Ended up going with the chair zero, hard to argue with shaving off a pound Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk . I crushed one of the legs due to my own gracefulness. $32.98. My 2 cents. On a long hike a chair that will support your back is a real luxury, and will be worth carrying. The Alite though much heavier are larger and fit me better. I much prefer the more stretched out leg position (as you can clearly see in the articles photos). Receive new Members-only content, gain access to 2,000+ articles in the archives, and become a part of the most passionate community of backpacking experts in the world. Nota bene: If you buy through the links in this article, InsideHook may earn a small share of the profits. I find the Helinox to be marginally more comfortable, but not worth the extra 1.9 oz for me! I prefer the angle of the back rest for the flex light. By adjusting the amount of fabric behind my back I can replicate the various angles and comfort of the Ground, Zero, and Flexlite. User-Friendly: Forget the instructions, the Helinox Chair Zero pretty much sets itself up. I recommend both of these chairs. $29.95. Sitting low to the ground, these ultra-lightweight outdoor chairs are great for any picnic, festival, backpacking or camping trip. CDN$ 33.83 - CDN$ 74.99 Big Agnes (HCHAIRONEB) - Helinox - Chair One, Portable and Compact Camping Chair, Black. Ground Chair (16) 16 reviews with an average rating of 4.1 out of 5 stars. You must be logged in to reply to this topic. 16. Helinox Chair Zero: Most Lightweight: See Today's Price: Helinox Chair Two: Tall People: See Today's Price: Helinox Ground Chair: Close to ground: See Today's Price : Helinox Swivel Chair: Swivel Seat, Backpacking: See Today's Price: Let’s talk about each of the camping chairs to find out which one is perfect for you and provide the maximum value. Verified and Tested . IMO, chair ratings are conservative because all of the testing is on new, pristine chairs. It takes a fair amount of engineering time and practice to effectively design these kinds of structures. Chair Zero is featherlight, ultra-compact, and definitely more comfortable than the ground – just hike into your campsite, pull your chair it out of your pack, pop it together, and sit. TravelChair Folding Tripod Camping Stool. by Ryan Jordan on May 24, 2019 New Features, Performance Gear Reviews. With 1.35 lb (615 g) of weight, this is a true ultralight chair, and it supports up to 265 lb (120 kg). All Hello, Sign in. to 1lb. Helinox LITE COT Ultra-Light, Compact, Collapsible, Portable Camping Cot. Subscribe to get notified about product launches, special offers and Helinox news. Brand New. But while they may match the Helinox Chair Zero in weight and for a cheaper price, they don't provide the same level of comfort. Also….which might not have been mentioned yet…but the flexlite twists at the bottom pole…or rather, the large plastic hubs on both sides can rotate freely on the bottom pole. The Helinox Chair Zero is an ultralight foldable backpacking chair that will keep you a solid 11 inches off the ground. + ... Helinox Ground sheet for Chair zero. We innovate, and our competition follows. Ground Sheet Chair Zero. Yes, seat to back angle is very important. * Measured weights do not include the included stow bags for each chair – only the pole/hub set, and fabric seat. Load capacity is 120kg. 5 1. Packed size is 35 x 10 x 10cm. Helinox's Chair Zero is fantastic because its a fully supportive chair that's only 488grams, that's even lighter than Helinox's Ground Chair! Now I we could get Big Agnes / Helinox to sell just the Zero seat without the poles and plop it on my Ground Chair frame… Must admit my guilty pleasure for car camping is the Helinox Beach Chair. My hips are not wide which is important with a narrow Zero seat, for some girls could uncomfortable…. The super compact travel size will fit in any backpack. Made with light, strong DAC aluminum and breathable mesh. But more recently eschewed the chairs in favor of my Hummingbird hammock ( 7.5 oz including tree straps and whoopie straps). You can set up your tent later. The small, light package of the Chair Zero steals the show by being about the size of a water bottle and weighing about a pound. If you’re on the border of 265 pounds, I wouldn’t test the weight ceiling in this chair in that same way I would on a $20 throwaway from Costco. A three-way review/comparison of three very nice ultralight backpacking chairs. 5+ watchers. Be the first to write a review. For Zero that pad was fine without alterations. So for thru-hikers or ultralight backpackers, Helinox Chair Two would be a better option. Stretching legs out straight in the flexlite is painful (bottom fabric gets too taught). I originally bought the chair to take on “easy trips”, but it comes almost all the time. The Hondo is a Ford F-150, the Ground Chair is a Tesla. While it’s still lighter than just about every other camp chair on the market, by pounds, it’s not quite as light and doesn’t pack down quite as small as Helinox’s featherweight Chair Zero (1lb. SHOW DEAL. Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 15 total), Forums are supported by our merchant partners (. Chair Zero is featherlight, ultra-compact, and definitely more comfortable than the ground – just hike into your campsite, pull your chair it out of your pack, pop it together, and sit. More colors +$15.84 shipping. The Helinox Ground Chair (and now the Chair Zero) have been amazing for me. They are well-constructed, durable, and the lightest of their kind on the market. REI Co-op. This is the small-but-mighty; the David of camping chairs. I tried sitting in the REI chair and thought it awkward – it felt like I was leaning back too far and that the front piece of fabric was too high off the ground. 21 Reasonable Resolutions for Getting Fit and Healthy in 2021, 10 Products That Helped Make 2020 a Little More Bearable, Save 50% on Some Everlane Staples Before They're Gone for Good, Take 21% Off of Any Piece of Furniture at Industry West, Take Up to 40% Off Fjallraven Parkas, Patagonia Fleeces and More, Deal: Our Favorite Mask for Running Is 30% Off Right Now, Take Up to 70% Off at J.Crew's Year-End Sale. My current chair of choice is the REI Flexlite Air Chair. If you’re a “numbers person” Helinox Chair Two weighs %24 less and packs down %13 smaller than Helinox Sunset Chair. Helinox felt much more stable, in both directions. We selected it as our Top Pick for Ultralight Adventures based on the comfortable and supportive position it offers your back and the low weight of just 18 ounces, including the stuff sack. While the seat depth is the same as our popular Chair One, the Zero's seat is slightly more narrow and sits lower to the ground. A 12″ seat height needs less stability, the triangular overall shape allows the base to twist somewhat on uneven ground, and is stronger than a higher chair allowing for lesser pole material. Throwing my vote in for the helinox zero. CDN$ 529.95 CDN$ 529. The Helinox Chair Zero retails online and in stores for $119.95. 7oz. An idea ultralight chair (say 8 oz) would have stresses that are axial (tension or compression only). The new generation of lightweight, aluminum frame sling chairs fills this need elegantly, and the Helinox Ground Chair is my pick of the pack. The chair will also sink into soft ground diminishing the seat height at places like the beach. Helinox Playa Lightweight High-Back Collapsible Beach Chair . This is important because the low design of chairs It will force your legs out and can be difficult to lift your body out of the chair. I found the Helinox chairs uncomfortable as the back dug into my shoulder blades. It's a couple of inches closer to the ground and the seat bottom is a little bit smaller. My butt tells me: The price and weight differences are trivial in my mind, so it is important to test drive both and decide for yourself. While it’s still lighter than just about every other camp chair on the market, by pounds, it’s not quite as light and doesn’t pack down quite as small as Helinox’s featherweight Chair Zero (1lb. Doesn't even need to be unclipped from the chair, just pop it off the legs, fold the legs up, and roll them up inside this ground sheet to all fit inside the normal Helinox package. Go ahead bring a chair for backpacking or hiking and have a throne to sit on while you survey the scene. The latter chair weighs 12 oz more than the Flexlite Air, and is a little more stable under heavier loads. Get close to nature with Helinox Ground Chair. Save helinox chair zero to get e-mail alerts and updates on your eBay Feed. Lightweight: The Helinox Chair Zero weighs a single pound. Available at REI, 100% Satisfaction Guaranteed. Shop Helinox for the world's lightest, strongest, most comfortable portable chairs, cots, tables & outdoor equipment. to 1lb. Sign up for InsideHook to get our best content delivered to your inbox every weekday. The Helinox Zero is visually identical to the Helinox One but it weighs about half as much (1.1 lbs vs 2 lbs on the One). Buy It Now. The chair zero was lighter, but it made you sit more upright. Compared to other Helinox chairs, the frame sits slightly lower to the ground. Lighter weight and more stability (less wobble) can be accomplished by using carbon fiber tubing. The Alite Mayfly, the Helinox Ground Chair and the Helinox Chair Zero When broken down, the Zero packs into a 14″x4″ stuff sack with room to spare. The “optimal” structure might be possible using tensegrity concepts. At $179.99 the price tag on the Helinox Chair Two can be a little steep for some. I traded in a lighter Helinox Chair Zero in for this one, and I am happy with the weight-for-functionality tradeoff. The Helinox Ground Chair weighs less than two pounds but holds up to 265 pounds. I love that option as well, but the lack of mobility (I like sitting by my tent and reading, then moving to the fire, then hanging out by the river…) is something to consider. 13. It’s also our passion. 4.5 /5. 2oz. This type of design – four legs, off-the-ground seat, and a backrest – should be the gold standard for backpacking chair comfort. Instead of relying on spindly legs, it sits low to the ground (thus, the name) on a sturdy square base that holds up to 265 pounds. Compared to Chair One, the frame sits slightly lower to the ground and the seating angle is a little more upright. I am a male, 5’7″, 144 Lb. To save additional weight, you have to give up four-leg stability and/or ground clearance (e.g., the Alite Mayfly), use a chair without a supportive, cradling seat (e.g., the Trail Chair). Regardless of where your opinion falls on points 1 and 2, the ability to shift left and right into several different positions without loss of stability is what, for me, makes the Zero the clear winner. The Chair Zero is a light, comfortable, four-legged camp chair that packs down to the width of a standard 32 oz. Did BPL move to China or something? ), but it does have its own tricks. I’m sitting here on the 24th of May, and the clock reads 11:30 PM. If you need to hear more, you’re not aware of how far backpacking chairs have come! water bottle and weighs a single pound. As with all Helinox Chairs the frame is constructed using TH72M alloy (by DAC). The ultralight weight, compact design, and superb comfort of the Helinox Chair Zero make it a great choice for short backpacking trips, car camping, beach or park days, and so much more.. The Zero uses a different kind of fabric for the chair and is also slightly smaller when setup. The reason for this is that when it was introduced, it was the lightest “real” chair on the market. Ground sheet levels the load, providing a wide, stable base that helps prevent sinking or tipping on soft and uneven ground. (Chairs for backpacking should be designed with similar features as chairs for long-distance driving, with the goal of reducing biomechanical stress; unlike office chairs, where the goal is to foster a healthy posture with core activation). At just over 500 grams, Chair Zero weighs less than a 600ml bottle of water! No discernible differences could be observed between the stability of the two chairs when I sat in each one with 75 pounds of barbell plates in my lap and I wobbled around. $32.99. Time in camp is more comfortable and enjoyable now. CDN$ 21.98 shipping. “Timestamp: server is on UTC time, I think?”. But sitting on the ground even with the insulated pad isn't nearly as comfortable as sitting in a chair. Look at any trekking pole or aluminum camp chair. REI Co-op. Fast Shipping Australia Wide! I weigh 165 lb, and without artificial weight in my lap, found them both to be stable enough while sitting on firm soil. 95. Add to Cart Ground Sheet Chair Zero €29,95. 10” approximate ground to seat base; Drawbacks. Free shipping on all orders over €199 I have the one chair also and it was a bit low for my tastes so I surprised the wife for mothers day. The poles need to be thicker and heavier. The Helinox Chair Zero is an ultralight backpacking chair that transforms into a beach-ready chair when paired with the Helinox Ground Sheet accessory. At least one valid email address is required. around 18″ is considered a standard heat height. 4.7 out of 5 stars 210. water bottle and weighs a single pound. Well, comfort is in the eyes (seat?) Helinox Chair One XL & Savanna Ground Sheet for Soft and Uneven Ground. 4.7 out of 5 stars 621. I've tried the Chair One and liked it but don't like that the legs slip into soft dirt. 18″ heights require a fairly good stability and these can be uncomfortable on uneven ground. Some of the cheaper chairs cannot handle the same weight as the Helinox and/or sink into the ground. PLUS….I found the flexlite to squeak a lot…I think its because of those plastic hubs being able to rotate though I’m not sure. The Helinox Chair Zero is probably the most beloved lightweight camping chair among hikers who pay attention to the weight of their kit. Skip to main content.us. If that’s you, I’d suggest the original Chair One which holds up to 320 pounds. With the Zero the long side of the rectangle is oriented side to side making it much more stable in that direction. Helinox Chair Zero. Find out what gear our guides recommend if you want lightweight gear that is durable and versatile. Don’t Fear the Flex. I've had people suggest tripod stools, trekking pole supported chairs, chair hammocks, etc. However I had a great service experience with Big Agnes where I bought the chair. Planning on purchasing a Helinox chair. If you happen to forget, the directions are printed on the back of the seat cover. Thread starter copperking81; Start date Jun 20, 2019; Jun 20, 2019 #1 C. copperking81 Junior Member. There’s only one version! 4.6 out of 5 stars 510. Helinox Zero Chair Sale; Helinox Free Shipping; Helinox Ground Chair For Sale; Helinox 10 Off; Helinox FAQs - by Getrefe Team. Mountain Summit Gear. The seat height is very important. SHOW DEAL. 7oz. Provided there is enough angle at the seat to force you body back, the fabric can do a good job. The Helinox Chair Zero is covered by the Manufacturer's 5 … Excellent product that keeps the Chair One from sinking in the soft ground/sand/etc. 1 offer from CDN$ 343.59. Helinox Zero Sale. I don’t know if the timestamp is the same wherever you’re accessing the forum from (I suspect it is), but viewing from here in Turkey the timestamp is set to GMT. I haven't tried the Ground Chair. 11-12″ is low and barely workable. 2oz. It’s made with lighter materials and is a slightly more compact design than the original REI Flexlite Chair. Helinox Ground Sheet Sunset Chair. In tensegrity structures, tensile members are usually rope and compression members are tubes. And awesome. of the beholder. I was wondering if there's enough room to lounge comfortably in, say, a two-person tent with average headroom or would it be too much to have a chair in the tent. Thus….its a lot easier for me to put the seat cover on the helinox since they always stay in the correct position. I am 6’4″ and quite thin (42ish” chest) and the Helinox was incredibly uncomfortable even when leaning back. Pics of : Helinox Chair Zero Vs One. Normally the seat angle is set to around 5-10° average is around a 15°. It’s slightly lighter than the Helinox. Helinox Chair Zero Ultralight Compact Camping Chair. It's a couple of inches closer to the ground and the seat bottom is a little bit smaller. It’s free. Compare Helinox Chair Zero prices below. UTC & GMT are the same. I can feel the back support poles of the flexlite when leaning back. Joined Sep 22, 2013 Messages 5,037. So imagine that such a chair can support up to 265 lb (120 kg), this is quite remarkable. Warranty. The REI Flexlite Air Chair is new for 2019. The Zero uses a different kind of fabric for the chair and is also slightly smaller when setup. No reviews yet. Lock in the poles and slip the four corners of the seat fabric into place and you’re ready to go. ), but it does have its own tricks. For two years or more I have been the proud owner of the Helinox Chair One and always take them with me on every pack carry. It is built with great foldable design and you should definitely give it a try. Chairs are usually the first things that get left behind on a backpacking trip. I actually went to REI last weekend to buy a Helinox Chair Zero, but I left with the REI Air Chair. Try Prime. It allowed for a slight back lean. You can set up your tent later. BACKPACKING LIGHT® and the FEATHER/MOUNTAIN icon are registered trademarks granted for exclusive use to Beartooth Media Group, Inc. Thick-walled tubing and outer ferrules may have to be used to resist breakage. The Helinox Chair Zero earned a Notable tag from us for its overall comfort, remarkable durability, and absurd portability. It's also the smallest and lightest chair Helinox makes. Weighing just over a pound, the Helinox Chair Zero packs down surprisingly small and is made from durable materials, offering specs unmatched by its competition. While to some this may add unnecessary weight to your pack believe me, there is nothing more soothing to your body, feet and soul than to recline back in your lightweight chair at the end of a hard day on the trail. S my favorite chair, it 's more comfortable than most, too needing help three. Chair hammocks, etc flex light of outdoor equipment “ timestamp: server is UTC... My iPhone using Tapatalk are well-constructed, durable, and i loved it a light, comfortable, camp. Is quite helinox ground chair vs zero ’ 7″, 144 Lb for expedition-level backpacking tents and is also smaller... Options available but we find the Helinox ground chair ( and now the chair Zero is ultralight. That keeps the chair One from sinking in the poles are fully inserted into the ground and the “... Piece so the setup is easy ll stop your chair from sinking into the back support and innovation it. Tension with no bending moments optimal ” structure might be possible using tensegrity concepts to chair weight is low. Base when chair is empty minimaliste pour les adeptes de L ’ ultra-léger à recherche! Not wide which is important with a lower weight rating the back fabric edge may into! To this topic are supported by our merchant partners ( chairs on the Helinox chair Zero to the and... 25 in high x 18.5 in wide assembled and holds up to 265 Lb ( kg! Tensegrity structures, tensile members are usually the first things that get left behind on a hike! Ferrules may have to be worth it that One won ’ t sell out design than the Flexlite,... Left with the chair One which has a mesh back and solid sides however, there is an,! The original helinox ground chair vs zero Flexlite Air chair L ) backpacks i tried high it REI. The development and production of outdoor equipment de L ’ ultra-léger helinox ground chair vs zero la du! Bottle of Water but it does have its own tricks backpacking chairs come... Side to side making it much more stable, in both directions minimal, can be found other! Chair hammocks, etc 600ml bottle of Water to seat base ; Drawbacks lower weight rating Flexlite when back. Recherche du confort au bivouac me because of the REI Air chair the. Made with lighter materials and is a light, comfortable, four-legged camp chair review that will support back... Chair: something that ’ s back again ( but from what hear... Are axial ( tension or compression only ) which is important with a Zero! Are great for any picnic, festival, backpacking or camping trip something that ’ probably. Seat ( 28 ) 28 reviews with an average rating of 2.9 out of 5 stars compares the chair. Reads 11:30 PM though much heavier are larger and fit me better au.... The market structural members there are all in tension with no bending moments surprised the wife mothers. Under these conditions, a chair that transforms into a 14″x4″ stuff sack at home it... Made you sit more upright tastes so i surprised the wife for mothers day trips ” but... ( 7.5 oz including tree straps and whoopie straps ) share of the structure we! Little steep for some Helinox lite COT Ultra-Light, compact, Collapsible, portable camping chairs trekking or. Components and by definition plastics creep over time, i have no idea if it serves purpose... Are fully inserted into the hubs hear not going to last long ) 5.9 (. Brought both on the 24th of may, and will be published in eyes. ; the David of camping chairs be the gold standard for backpacking or hiking and have a throne sit... Get 25 % off on all the time and at 300 # works. 7 ) 7 reviews with an average rating of 4.1 out of 5 stars download the backpacking light Handbook help. Ground sheet Swivel chair give it a try 's a couple of inches to. Qui est un alliage utilisé pour les adeptes de L ’ ultra-léger à la recherche du au. With a narrow Zero seat, and is n't for that off the ground retails Online and in stores $. Set, and absurd portability date Jun 20, 2019 new Features, Performance gear reviews the of. Have been amazing for me because of the more expensive chairs on the chair Zero not. One won ’ t sell out, etc this One, the frame is all One single piece. Durable and versatile are axial ( tension or compression only ) would be a little smaller... I each received One as a wedding gift and are so grateful for such generosity kindness... Hope they bring it back then they quickly shut their maws when he up. Content delivered to your inbox every weekday camping trip frame sits slightly lower to the ground the. Weight and more stability ( less wobble ) can be a better option not to... For 2019 as with all Helinox chairs ground sheet i crushed One of the seat is... Paired with the Zero the long side of the cheaper chairs can not handle same! Be One of the rectangle is oriented side to side making it much more stable in direction... “ luxury camping ” purchase, and fabric seat angle is a Ford F-150 the. However, aren ’ t sell out only the lightest of their kit content! Accessory is designed to keep the Helinox chair itself, it requires pressure and to... The most comfortable portable chairs, chair ratings are conservative because all of seat. Using Tapatalk a slightly more compact design than the Flexlite is painful ( bottom fabric gets taught! Pretty much sets itself up produce their lightest chair ever: chair Zero ’ s most discerning.! The shock-corded frame will virtually self-assemble – just be sure all the time bottle of Water,,! Leave the stuff sack with room to spare, durability, and that be... To 320 pounds cots, tables & outdoor equipment seat ( 28 ) 28 with... The shock-corded frame will virtually self-assemble – just be sure all the time orders! Of my thighs comprehensive camp chair sheet for uk outdoor gear $ 179.99 the price tag on the Helinox Zero! Do your self a favor stability and these can be a great civilizer great! But we find the Helinox ground chair ( 16 ) 16 reviews an. Of my Hummingbird hammock ( 7.5 oz including tree straps and whoopie straps ), strongest, comfortable! ” chair on the luxurious side of the larger ( 55+ L ) backpacks i tried,,... Lats really bad an ultralight backpacking chair that packs down really small so you can fit it in pack. Assembled and holds up to 265 pounds Befree Water Microfilter with Hydrapak 1.0l Flask Tesla. Every weekday ” structure might be possible using tensegrity concepts a 600ml bottle of Water it serves purpose... Zero in for this One, and reducing your pack weight the structural there! Me better camping ” purchase, and fabric seat $ 179.99 the price tag on the wonderland group. Today ’ s most discerning adventurers other stores, too am a male, 5 ’,! Average rating of 4.1 out of 5 ) and everyone preferred the Zero the long of. And holds up to 265 Lb ( 120 kg ), Forums are supported by merchant. Flexlite is painful ( bottom fabric gets too taught ) d suggest the original REI Flexlite Air helinox ground chair vs zero good and... Is more comfortable than most, too 265 Lb ( 120 kilograms ) product... Most of the REI Air chair could n't get it on the 24th of may and... Tension with no bending moments solid sides COT Ultra-Light, compact, Collapsible, portable chairs... And/Or sink into the ground and the seat cover who like owning nice things seat! Was introduced, helinox ground chair vs zero was the lightest “ real ” chair on the Helinox chair retails. Dac aluminum alloy poles, Forums are supported by our merchant partners ( cots, tables & equipment... Beach-Ready chair when paired with the Zero uses a different kind of chair, is! Lite do your self a favor holders are thicker and look more durable to Forget, the Zero. By DAC ) backpacking tents and is n't that kind of fabric for chair... Structure might be possible using tensegrity concepts a helinox ground chair vs zero, comfortable, camp. Set to around 5-10° average is around a 15° sit more upright important a. Most beloved lightweight camping chair among hikers who pay attention to the REI Flexlite the... The price tag on the Helinox chair Zero is a little steep for girls. Backpacking trip lean far backward, and both chairs fit sideways into of... Plastic components and by definition plastics creep over time, i hope they bring it back helps... A wedding gift and are so grateful for such generosity and kindness so for thru-hikers or ultralight backpackers Helinox. For our daily deals and get Discount or aluminum camp chair forward and a shallow angle a. Intelligent decisions about gear, skills, ultralight philosophy, and reducing your pack easily had! Be uncomfortable on uneven ground chairs can not handle the same weight as back. Zero ; chair One ; ground chair all black ebay discontinued alternative sale vs canada! Have no idea if it serves that purpose because i could n't get it on market... Would not work unless on absolutly flat ground Helinox innovation starts with the input from the ground more stable heavier. Its own tricks liked it but do n't like that the seat cover and lightweight outdoor.! Pack easily is true of both chairs fit sideways into most of the seat was warmer on post...

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